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 It's time to come together

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Mustang
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PostSubject: It's time to come together   Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:04 pm

We simply have to get past the bashing, both of present council's actions and those of past councils. Sitting at home or in one's office sending articles to the Forum is convenient...and safe. But that isn't going to get the job done. Last night some of the council members expressed their appreciation for input from the public and City employees...and asked for more. We need to be proactive and help out. Folks, Ortonville...and every community in this state...is being confronted by some serious budget shortfalls for the foreseeable future.
The cure isn't going to come overnight...this economic downturn is going to be around for a few years. The council needs to look outside the traditional box and come up with cutbacks that will allow this community to continue to have the excellent public safety and maintenance of streets, sidewalks, and alleys that it has had in the past. I believe this can be done without letting people go or eliminating their fringe benefits.
If the council is serious about public input, maybe they should consider forming an ad hoc committee made up of council members and people from the community. I believe that if we all pull together, we'll get past this.
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mouthpiece
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PostSubject: You have always been respectful to others   Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:10 pm

I wholeheartedly agree your position about coming together. I further point out that the way you treat the people who have opposing views.

Part of the reason this became more anatagonistic is because the leadership of the community continued to run with blinders.

By the way, a great way of dealing with opposing views is to put all on a committee.
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Mustang
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PostSubject: Cooperating with each other   Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:49 pm

We just have to get past the personal rancor and work together to keep our community as we've grown to love it.
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mouthpiece
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PostSubject: It is time for compromise and rational discussions with leaders of the community.   Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:31 pm

It is time for compromise and rational discussions with leaders of the community.

There appear to be a number of victims to the current budget crisis and the sincerest apologies to the part time employees who benefits may be cut, the city personnel who have to work with equipment that is old and most certainly the families of law enforcement who face loss of jobs.

The Mayor in a responsible fashion seemed open but guarded. He obviously supports the subsidizing of the golf course. I would put essential services ahead of this position, so with respect I disagree. Now is there a compromise. We could sell the golf course? We could run it like a business? We can make cuts at the golf course? Recreation should not be a sacred cow in the budget cuts and this mayor appears to agree.

There are those that believe that economic development is a sacred cow and should not be cut back. I disagree. I have some serious questions about the amount that is being spent on economic development. I also have questions about creating TIF financing for a new hotel so that it has the advantage of competing with the existing hotels. On the other hand, we could make cutbacks without eliminating economic development. Perhaps when we think about this, we do need to move in this direction. Is economic development more important than essential services?

Then there are those of us who respect and understand the stress of constant loss of jobs that has been created by this city council and city clerk. We believe that grants will be available and may cost the city nothing under the stimulus package. One can imagine that the loss of the Ortonville Police Department would be a long term decision that is a forever loss. I know that the city council does not expect those of us who support law enforcement to just bend over. There will be a loss of 4-6 jobs and long term repercussions. May I suggest as the council look at this we should compromise in all areas instead of just the police department. The police department should not bear the majority of the loss. May I suggest that cutbacks in all three areas is the compromise that is best for the community.
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Artie Arndt
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PostSubject: questions   Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:18 pm

Just two questions on your suggestions:
1.How can we continue to have 28 hours of coverage on Fridays for local police, is that a good use of taxpayer dollars?

2. When are people going to start feeling sorry for those who pay the taxes? Taxes have gone crazy and we are in the 80%+ percentile for towns our size?
The school had to cut some jobs also-heck thousands of jobs are being cut nationwide. I truly feel sorry for those that are being cut, but are we being realistic?
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PostSubject: Why do you advocate only police cuts   Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:26 pm

Why do you advocate only police cuts

The councils approach and those who were at the meeting last night believe that we need to look at all areas instead of just one.

I could ask the same question for you? How do you advocate subsidizing the golf course for the rich?

Let's now start to be rational and make appropriate cuts in all departments.
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daniw
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PostSubject: Re: It's time to come together   Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:14 am

mouthpiece wrote:
Why do you advocate only police cuts

The councils approach and those who were at the meeting last night believe that we need to look at all areas instead of just one.

I could ask the same question for you? How do you advocate subsidizing the golf course for the rich?

Let's now start to be rational and make appropriate cuts in all departments.

I dont think sterotyping should be allowed on this forum, how do you justfy if someones rich, do you know what they make? I play golf, am i rich? How do you know? Exactly, you dont!!!
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mouthpiece
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PostSubject: Why are we subsidzing the golf course   Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:30 am

Why are we subsidizing the golf course

You changed the focus of the debate. What about the golf course is a reason to subsidize it? Why is the golf course the sacred cow of Ortonville.

I commend the Mayor and the city councilmen who had the courage at the last meeting and agreed with this analysis.
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computerwhiz
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PostSubject: Re: It's time to come together   Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:28 am

Mustang I completely agree with you. Everyone needs to work together to help build up and support our communities in these hard times. And make them all they can be.

People should ignore irrelevant differences between each other and do their jobs.

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Artie Arndt
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PostSubject: Mouthpiece   Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:04 pm

I am still waiting for your response to my questions. Can we discuss facts?
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Jimhau
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PostSubject: Re: It's time to come together   Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:30 pm

I have read alot of the forums and read Mouthpeice talking down the golf course alot. I see Mouthpeice as being one of the wealthy residents that has all the money to go out of ortonville to the big cities and do as they wish.As for me not being wealthy, well lets just say the golf course is the only form of recreational activity I enjoy in town. If I was a drinker then I would have 2 hobbies, but since golf is the only thing to do I rather enjoy it and the nice course our city has to offer. Everyone complains about money being spent in the wrong places but you never here anyone talking about how to get people out of their homes and enjoying the town and spending money to help pay for all these items that there is no money for. At this time the city is a get up go to work and go home town, not to far off from ghost town.
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mouthpiece
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PostSubject: We need to make cutbacks   Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:56 am

We need to make cutbacks

Whether or not I golf, I do, is not the issue or the thread. Please respond to the thread. The city councils budget committee has already responded that the golf course will be an area to consider in cut backs.

The role of government is to provide essential services, like fire protection, police protection and safety road protections, snow removal.

It seems to me that if I let my house go back on a foreclosure and bought a new 60" TV most people would say my priorities were wrong.

I think our leaders are making the right decisions. Are you saying out city council was wrong in making this decision?
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Lady Hawk
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PostSubject: Re: It's time to come together   Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:37 am

daniw, I agree with you that people should be careful when they generalize.

As far as Artie waiting for a reply remember that this is a forum. It is like a slow chat room. People have jobs and a life. Often times someone makes a post and other people will take time to think about it and want to check their facts before replying. Some threads sit for hours, days, weeks, or months before they are replied to. Some threads never get a response.

Jimhau you make some interesting observations. Your comment about how people should have places to go around here to do things is a good point. On another post some people were commenting about things that could be done to improve Milbank. Start at the 8th post here.

It would be nice if we could come up with some activities that people could go to locally that would not be expensive.

The topic of this thread is supposed to be talking about rational discussions with leaders in the community. Does that mean that those of us talking here are leaders in the community? Very Happy

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Our citizens may be deceived for awhile, and have been deceived;
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Artie Arndt
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PostSubject: Question for Mouthpiece   Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:07 am

Mouthpiece, can you please explain why the Ortonville PD has 28 hours of coverage on Fridays and why you think that they should not be cut? It seems you have no intelligent answere.
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mouthpiece
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PostSubject: It is time for Rational responses.   Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:09 pm

It is time for Rational responses.

This thread was about support of the city council in considering cutbacks in three areas.

There can be no rational discussions when we have tunnel vision. There is a small group of citizens that believe the police department should be eliminated.

This is the wrong thread for many reasons for this discussion.

I am preparing a rational response to Mr. Arndt's facts.

Frankly, part of the problem is I am unsure what the facts prove. I am trying to examine these facts and attempt to make positive attempts to move in a different direction.

One of my concerns as well as Mustang the attacks of personality portray Ortonville in a negative light. You have no idea how many people who read this forum out of the area were deeply offended by the attacks. I apologize and I will attempt to treat you with respect, but I expect the same.

The goal in the next few days is to post not only a response to the facts but a definition of goals.

Please wait patiently as I attempt, probably in pieces, to provide a different way of thinking.

One of the major differences as I approach this subject is that I do not have an interests in the outcome,except that I like this area and I call it home.

More importantly, this plan or thread will deal with the general area instead of a critique of Ortonville; thereby, hopefully eliminating the emotions that ensued earlier this week.
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Lady Hawk
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PostSubject: Response to 28 hrs of police.   Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:50 am

Artie, if you want to know why the police patrol 28 hours on Fridays I suggest you ask them. They are the ones who would know why. It is not appropriate to ask Mouthpiece to go find your answers. If you then find fault with their answer you can discuss it.

You have also double posted. You asked this question on another thread and it was responded to.
See Police Department. policeman

You made two posts on this subject on Feb. 3 in different threads when a thread on the Law Enforcement already existed. You then asked the same question again here. That is making three threads on the same topic which makes it hard for people to follow the discussion. In the future please check to be sure there isn't already a thread on the subject you are posting.

In the future keep all the discussion of elimination of the police on the thread above using links if necessary.

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Our citizens may be deceived for awhile, and have been deceived;
but as long as the presses can be protected,
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- Thomas Jefferson
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