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 Socialized Medicine. Are we there yet?

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Lady Hawk

Number of posts : 622
Age : 62
Job/hobbies : Wife/Mother
Registration date : 2008-05-16

PostSubject: Socialized Medicine. Are we there yet?   Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:50 pm

doctor It is being reported that in the stimulus package is a provision reflecting the handiwork of Tom Daschle.
Your Health by: Betsy McCaughey

According to the article above: "One new bureaucracy, the
National Coordinator of Health Information
Technology, will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is
doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost
effective. The goal is to reduce costs and “guide” your
doctor’s decisions (442, 446). These provisions in the stimulus
bill are virtually identical to what Daschle prescribed in his
2008 book, “Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care
.” According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy
and “learn to operate less like solo practitioners.”


Hospitals and doctors that are not “meaningful users” of
the new system will face penalties. “Meaningful user” isn’t
defined in the bill. That will be left to the HHS secretary, who
will be empowered to impose “more stringent measures of
meaningful use over time” (511, 518, 540-541)

The Dakota Voice also raises concerns about this: "Not the least of my concerns was that EMR would provide a system of data storage that could be monitored and mined by government agencies for the purposes of social engineering and cost control, rather than for optimizing patient care." End of Am Medical Excellance by Dr. Theo in www.dakotavoice.com

I remember over 18 years ago when Bill and Hillary came into the White House and tried to take over the Medical Industry. The people rejected it. Why is is now acceptable for the government to take over our medical industry? Is it really wise to trust the government with our medical records?


Our citizens may be deceived for awhile, and have been deceived;
but as long as the presses can be protected,
we may trust to them for light.
- Thomas Jefferson
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Lady Hawk

Number of posts : 622
Age : 62
Job/hobbies : Wife/Mother
Registration date : 2008-05-16

PostSubject: Socialized Medicine and the family doctor.   Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:04 am

Many thanks to Mouthpiece for putting up the video on the portal with Ronald Reagans speech on socialized medicine. doctor Ronnie had a great gift for explaining things in a way that people could understand. Ronnie also believed that the people were intelligent enough to understand things. You NEVER heard Ronald Reagan say. "Oh, it's to complicated for you to understand. There are many hours of research in this. Just trust the people you elected and we will make the decision for you." That's what people in Washington want us to believe.

One of the things in his speech that hit home with me is how this will affect the doctors ability to act. Even now doctors are not necessarily making the decisions that they want to. They are hindered by insurance regulations that require what they do. The insurance companies dictate what tests must be run or even the procedure for a certain treatment. Doctors are losing their ability to use their own judgement. They spent years in school learning what to do and now they are becoming automatons for insurance companies and government regulations. They aren't making decisions because they want to or they think it is in the best interest of the patient, but because they HAVE to.

What happened to the America I remember. You could go to any doctor you wanted. Now you have to get permission from your insurance company to change doctors.

These trained professionals who have spent years gaining knowledge are now being regulated to the position of assembly line workers. They don't deserve that, and neither do we. No


Our citizens may be deceived for awhile, and have been deceived;
but as long as the presses can be protected,
we may trust to them for light.
- Thomas Jefferson

Last edited by Lady Hawk on Sun Aug 09, 2009 6:21 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : Added video.)
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Number of posts : 37
Registration date : 2009-04-05

PostSubject: Health Care Bill HR3200...Are you ready for it?   Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:51 pm


H.R.3200 -- America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009

.pdf version:

text version:

A Look At Some Items In The Socialized Medicine Bill (HR3200)
Posted on August 5, 2009 by 84rules

Anyone who has been going around saying that HR3200 is not socialized medicine legislation is either an outright liar or incredibly ignorant. Or, they simply have not read the text of HR3200.

The following items can be found by looking up page and line numbers in the pdf file from the first link. Go ahead and look through it. You will not believe some of the stuff you will be reading:

Pg 22 MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!!

Pg 30 Sec 123 – THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get.

Pg 29 Lines 4-16 – YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!! You can only get so much “care” per year.

Pg 42 – The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you. You have no choice!

Pg 50 Section 152 – HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise.

Pg 58 – Govt will have real-time access to individuals finances & a National ID Healthcard will be issued! (National ID card--IMO: Mark of the Beast??!!)

Pg 59 Lines 21-24 – Govt will have direct access to your bank accounts for elective funds transfer.

Pg 65 Sec 164 – Payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community orgs (ACORN).

Pg 72 Lines 8-14 – Govt is creating an HC Exchange to bring private HC plans under Govt control.

Pg 84 Sec 203 – Govt mandates ALL benefit pkgs for private HC plans in the Exchange.

Pg 85 Line 7 – Specs for Benefit Levels for Plans = The Govt will ration your Healthcare!

Pg 91 Lines 4-7 – Govt mandates linguistic appropriate services. Example – Translation for illegal aliens.

Pg 95 Lines 8-18 – The Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individually for Govt HC plan.

Pg 85 Line 7 – Specs of Benefit Levels for Plans. #AARP members – your Health care WILL be rationed.

Pg 102 Lines 12-18 – Medicaid Eligible Indiv. will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.

Pg 124 Lines 24-25 – No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No “judicial review” against Govt Monopoly.

Pg 127 Lines 1-16 – Doctors/AMA – The Govt will tell YOU what you can make.

Pg 145 Line 15-17 – An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public opt plan. NO CHOICE.

Pg 126 Lines 22-25 – Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families.

Pg 149 Lines 16-24 – ANY Employer with payroll of 400k & above who does not provide public option pays 8% tax on all payroll.

Pg 150 Lines 9-13 – Businesses with payroll between 251k & 400k who doesn’t provide public option pays 2-6% tax on all payroll.

Pg 167 Lines 18-23 – ANY individual who doesn’t have acceptable HC according to Govt will be taxed 2.5%.

Pg 170 Lines 1-3 – Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (You and I will pay for them.)

Pg 195 – Officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have access to ALL Americans’ financial/personal records.

Pg 203 Line 14-15 – “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax” Yes, it says that.

Pg 239 Line 14-24 – Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor will be very affected.

Pg 241 Line 6-8 – Doctors, doesn’t matter what specialty you have, you’ll all be paid the same.

Pg 253 Line 10-18 – Govt sets value of Doctor’s time, professional judgments, etc. Literally value of humans.

Pg 265 Sec 1131 – Govt mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries.

Pg 268 Sec 1141 – Fed Govt regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs.

Pg 272 Sec 1145 – TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS – Cancer patients. Welcome to rationing!

Pg 280 Sec 1151 – The Govt will penalize hospitals for what Govt deems preventable readmissions.

Pg 317 Lines 13-20 – PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells Doctors what/how much they can own.

Pg 317-318 Lines 21-25,1-3 – PROHIBITION on expansion – Govt is mandating hospitals cannot expand.

Pg 321 Lines 2-13 – Hospitals have option to apply for exception BUT community input required. Can you say ACORN?!!

Pg 335 Lines 16-25 Pg 336-339 – Govt mandates estab. of outcome based measures. HC the way they want. Rationing.

Pg 341 Lines 3-9 – Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Adv Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing all into Govt HC plan.

Pg 354 Sec 1177 – Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs.

Pg 379 Sec 1191 – Govt creates more bureaucracy – Telehealth Advisory Committee. Can you say HC by phone?

PG 425 Lines 4-12 – Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think Senior Citizens end of life. Seniors will be interviewed every year for health issues and decisions made as to what care they can or can’t receive

Pg 425 Lines 17-19 – Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney. Mandatory!

Pg 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 – Govt provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in death.

Pg 427 Lines 15-24 – Govt mandates program for orders for end of life. The Govt has a say in how your life ends.

Pg 428, 429 Lines 17-25, 1-9 – An “advanced care planning consult” will be used frequently as patients health deteriorates.

Pg 429 Lines 10-12 – “Advanced care planning consultation” may include an ORDER for end of life plans. An ORDER from the government.

Pg 429 Lines 13-25 – The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.

Pg 430 Lines 11-15 – The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life.

Pg 469 – Community Based Home Medical Services = Non profit orgs. Hello, ACORN Medical Services here!!?

Pg 472 Lines 14-17 – PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORG. 1 monthly payment to a community-based org. Like ACORN?

Pg 489 – Sec 1308 The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert Govt into your marriage.

Pg 494-498 – Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, rationing those services.

I realize we need some form of health care reform but are you willing to sacrifice your rights and freedom for this? Also, for your parents or childrens lives or even your own?
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Advanced Member
Advanced Member

Number of posts : 112
Job/hobbies : Education/Animal Rescue
Registration date : 2009-03-15

PostSubject: Re: Socialized Medicine. Are we there yet?   Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:36 am

Thanks for posting this.
The problem is that the Devil is in the details -- this 1000-page bill does not work out the details of the plan. Government administrators and a czar will do that. We are contemplating turning our health care over to the government, which will initially price everyone else out of the business and then be "the only game in town." I don't think most people can fully grasp the amount of power they are giving the government if this passes. The bill states they will ration during shortages. They don't mean shortages of kidneys -- they mean money.

People want to believe this isn't so. How can our own leaders contemplate such a thing? Well, they've been around for a couple hunded years -- they are called socialists and communicsts and they have an ideology that they would love to impose on the world because they think it's the best.

We are actually on the brink of throwing democracy away in favor of government rule, not rule of the people. Capitalism may not be perfect, but it beats whatever else is out there.

A member of the British parliament said this week that he astonished America is going down this path. He pointed out the year-long waiting periods in England for joint replacement, back surgery, etc. England accepted socialized medicine at a time when their economy was decimated and their major cities bombed during World War II. It was to be a stopgap measure. Instead, it has grown into the third largest employer in the world -- the British health system is gargantuan, and cannot be dismantled in favor of a more humane and effective (market driven) system. "That the US would consider adopting this kind of thing during peacetime and prosperity is just unbelievable."

When will people finally wake up to what's going on?

And why do we need to rush into this unless they are hiding something? It took Obama six months to decide what kind of dog he wants, and we're supposed to overhaul the health care system in a few weeks?
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Number of posts : 37
Registration date : 2009-04-05

PostSubject: "Home visitation programs for families with young children and families expecting children."   Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:21 am

Government coming into homes and usurping parental rights over child care and development.

It's outlined in sections 440 and 1904 of the House bill (Page 838), under the heading "Home visitation programs for families with young children and families expecting children." The programs (provided via grants to states) would educate parents on child behavior and parenting skills.
The bill says that the government agents, "well-trained and competent staff," would "provide parents with knowledge of age-appropriate child development in cognitive, language, social, emotional, and motor domains ... modeling, consulting, and coaching on parenting practices," and "skills to interact with their child to enhance age-appropriate development."

Are you kidding me?! With whose parental principles and values? Their own? Certain experts'? From what field and theory of childhood development? As if there are one-size-fits-all parenting techniques! Do we really believe they would contextualize and personalize every form of parenting in their education, or would they merely universally indoctrinate with their own? What if I want to homeschool my children, who is going to tell me that I’m not qualified?

Are we to assume the state's mediators would understand every parent's social or religious core values on parenting? Or would they teach some secular-progressive and religiously neutered version of parental values and wisdom? And if they were to consult and coach those who expect babies, would they ever decide circumstances to be not beneficial for the children and encourage abortions?

One government rebuttal is that this program would be "voluntary." Is that right? Does that imply that this agency would just sit back passively until some parent needing parenting skills said, "I don't think I'll call my parents, clergy or friends or read a plethora of books, but I'll go down to the local government offices"? To the contrary, the bill points to specific targeted groups and problems, on Page 840: The state "shall identify and prioritize serving communities that are in high need of such services, especially communities with a high proportion of low-income families."

Are we further to conclude by those words that low-income families know less about parenting? Are middle- and upper-class parents really better parents? Less neglectful of their children? Less needful of parental help and training? Is this "prioritized" training not a biased, discriminatory and even prejudicial stereotype and generalization that has no place in federal government, law or practice?

Bottom line: Is all this what you want or expect in a universal health care bill being rushed through Congress? Do you want government agents coming into your home and telling you how to parent your children? When did government health care turn into government child care?

Government needs less of a role in running our children's lives and more of a role in supporting parents' decisions for their children. Children belong to their parents, not the government. And the parents ought to have the right to parent them without the fed's mandates, education or intervention in our homes.

How contrary is Obamacare's home intrusion and indoctrination family services, in which state agents prioritize houses to enter and enforce their universal values and principles upon the hearts and minds of families across

Government's real motives and rationale are quite simple, though rarely, if ever, stated. If one wants to control the future ebbs and flows of a country, one must have command over future generations. That is done by seizing parental and educational power, legislating preferred educational methods and materials, and limiting private educational options. It is so simple that any socialist can understand it. As Josef Stalin once stated, "Education is a weapon whose effects depend on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed."
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Number of posts : 198
Registration date : 2008-10-04

PostSubject: Re: Socialized Medicine. Are we there yet?   Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:09 pm

What we got in Obamacare is NOT England/Canada socialized medicine. What it is is whatever the government wants it to be.
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PostSubject: Re: Socialized Medicine. Are we there yet?   Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:31 pm

Dec 27, 2009
As bad as government run health care is in Europe and Canada, according to Mark Steyn it will be worse here if Komissars Pelosi and Reid are able to deliver a health care reform bill to Dear Leader.


In her new book, The Truth About Obamacare, Sally C. Pipes—president of the Pacific Research Institute and an acknowledged expert on health care reform—reveals what Democrats in Congress and President Obama don't want you to know: Obamacare is even worse than most critics suspect.


By George Pataki
The reality is that this is all part of an orchestrated, well-financed effort to mislead the American people as to the facts on ObamaCare. It's not surprising. The American people have been terribly misled about this bill since before it was passed.
We were told that most Americans would pay less for their health care. Yet the Obama administration's own Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services just reported that health care costs will instead go up by over $1,000 per year by 2019 for a family of four.
We were told that ObamaCare would drive down the costs of health care. Yet just this week health insurers asked for premium increases of up to 9% solely because of ObamaCare.
We were told — and how many times did the president say this? — that if you were happy with your current coverage, you wouldn't need to change it at all. Yet under rules issued in June, his own administration estimates that 51% of all employees and 66% of workers in small businesses would have their current plan changed within three years as a result of new mandates.
We were told that ObamaCare would protect senior citizens. Yet millions of seniors will lose their Medicare Advantage coverage, and millions more, according to the administration's own analysis, will have difficulty accessing health care at all due to a half-trillion dollar cut in Medicare.

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