Why reporting the facts helps a community grow.

Why did you post this court report? Ever lost a child-I have. You post these and cause more agony to those involved in this tragic case. Take down the entire post. Have a little compassion.

I do have compassion for the families. However, every newspaper in the area had a significant article and in a few days I heard rumors about the charges and actions.

These rumors are worse then the actions themselves and sometimes about the innocent.

I believe it will stop the rumors and educate young men and women about child abuse.

If we hide the story and let the rumors abound we minimize what has happened.

You truly are a piece of work. You hear rumors and act regardless of the consequences or how those involved in a horrific incident affected. All for the "good" of the community? Wonderful to have you looking out for us all.

I agree with you jorge016. I understand that you want to stop the rumors but than again where is the respect for the families involved in this forum. If I had lost a child I would not want this court report for others to read.
People need to remember rumors get worse as the story is told to the next person. I was raised not to believe everything you hear. Before people start rumors they should remember that, before spreading the rumor further.

When i saw the report this morning, i read the first few lines and no further. But I think Mouthpiece is correct, this is a report, not inuendo. Itis part of the public record. The idea is to stop ugly rumors. I knew this was something that I could not handle well if I read it. I can certainly understand why it might upset others. But, if you read posts by Mouthpiece, you would know he is a compassionate person who cares about kids.

The above five posts are in reference to a post on another thread. A discussion has ensued on how this website reported the news. A question was asked about why this website posted a report and was not appropriate to the original post on the thread. Such questions belong in the feedback section and so I will attempt to bring the thread over to this section. (I say attempt because I am not as clever about this stuff as computerwhiz but will do my best.)

If you are unfamiliar with what the topic started about you may click on the link below to see the original thread.
Complaint for Second Degree Murder

There are many ways to view this and my view is different. I believe the above report is a benefit to all involved. Yes when people suffer a tragedy they are in emotional agony. However, whenever a death occurs it is not a private matter. People are informed and are given an opportunity to comfort the families. I find it difficult for the grieving people to have to explain to everyone who comes to ask, "What happened?" That will not be necessary in this case because outside people have gathered the information and now the public can save the grieving families the burden of having to tell everyone who asks them what happened. They can go through the grieving process unburdened by having to constantly relive it.

As far as posting this report the story came out. It was public. It involves the death of a child. People need to be informed. It is the publics right to be informed of possible crimes and having the public eye keeps the situation in conformity of the law. The report above is available to the press and they will in turn write their columns. They will edit and put it together to fit their perception, the points they want to make, and space available. Often times after reading the newspapers side of the story I have more questions than answers.

What you have in the above post are the facts. No editorials. No personal comments. Anyone can read it and that takes away the gossip that goes around chipping away at people. I read the above with compassion for everyone involved. It was sad. The above report shows that people were doing their job and addressing the situation. People don't have to gossip and wonder what happened. By posting the report everyone is protected from injustice. Law enforcement is acting in full view of the public and will protect the rights of everyone involved.

Racingcain wrote:

I was raised not to believe everything you hear.

This is certainly true Racingcain and now as the legal system takes over and does it's job they will have the burden of proving that the events they have documented are accurate. It is the protection of public observation that helps to keep our judicial system in check. Anytime in the future should people talk about it there will be a place they can go to and read the facts again and thereby avoid the continuing gossipy stories.

I fail to see how posting this report will cause agony, consequences, or shows lack of respect to the families involved. Are these words tossed out without foundation in an attempt to ridicule one media? Did you complain to the other media for reporting the story? Did you tell them they should not talk about it? Every other media had access to the story and will print it. Are they causing agony, consequences, or showing lack of respect for reporting it? Blame the press if you want to but it is the job of the media to keep people informed of the news.

I noticed Jolie did not read the report because she believed she could not handle it. I too did not want to read it but felt an obligation to do so. This report was not what I had expected and found it was dealing factually, laying out the course of events that lead to the death of this child. It was certainly not sensationalized like one is exposed to in the other media. The report filled me with compassion for all involved.

mouthpiece wrote:

I believe it will stop the rumors and educate young men and women about child abuse.

Mouthpiece has stated the reason was to stop rumors and to educate young men and women about child abuse. Mouthpiece has spent his adult life working with people who have lived tragedies like this and has a deep desire for it to stop. Hiding the facts will not help and people need to recognize how their attitude affects others around them.

Both jorge016 and Racingcain have stated that they do not approve of the post. They are entitled to their opinion. I believe the post was the most appropriate reporting of the incident and appreciate the people in law enforcement who had to put this together. They are the ones who face these kinds of things regularly. My appreciation goes to the law enforcement officers, the medical staff, and the court system who give of themselves to come to the aid of people in desperate need and face these kinds of situations regularly, some of them most tragical.

Racingcain I usually welcome a new member when we engage in a chat for the first time and wish to welcome you to the forum.

jorge016 may I extend my sympathies to you on the child you lost. I believe losing a child is the most tragical thing that can happen to a parent.

I would hope that this recent event will open the eyes of people and help them to be more vigilant to avoid such tragedies in the future.

Thanks for the full explanation of rationale here, Lady Hawk.
I skimmed the report and chose not to read it -- I could discern the types of details in it, and it more information than I needed to know.
Your point about how the facts helped you empathize with all parties is significant. Traditional news stories often give short shrift to the 'villain.' It's easy to tell the villain -- they are the person who did something to offend or appall us. But that doesn't make them seem human.
Whenever I read about an unintended tragedy like this, I feel for everyone. There is room for compassion and pity. Knowing the facts allows us to perceive that.
And it may show enough truth that it may move someone else to get help, or to encourage someone to get help, or to run from someone who is hurting someone else.
In "Into Thin Air," a fictional movie, a mother can't get people to go high profile on looking for her young missing son after it looks like a gay family friend may have assaulted and killed him. They tell her people don't want to hear about such things. She screams in frustration and anger at them, "Where to they think these children are -- Disneyland?"
My final comment -- A tragedy touches a lot of people. It raises my respect and awareness of what our court officers, investigators and medical people have to go through, just as Lady Hawk said. Thank God for them.
Part of the reason we hold the military in such high regard is because we have heard unvarnished truths and seen the pictures of what they go through. Many believe this is the only way to stopping war and choosing a different path. Can the same approach apply to getting EVERYONE involved in trying to help protect our children?
It sure makes me more observant and more willing to step out of my comfort zone and confront what I think may be something getting out of control.
I believe the Forums is absolutely right in posting a public document, for all the reasons so far stated.

I can not say if this posting is right or wrong but these are my observations:

First, as a secondary victim of a violent crime, reading this did bring back flashbacks and I worry about other victims, would it trigger flashbacks?

Second, would this contaminate a jury panel? With our small population, how many would want to sit on this jury? Would this person get a fair trial here?

It is time for me to respond. The decision to post this Complaint was troubling, but not at all for the reasons we have suggested.

The victim are all three involved. These were young parents, inexperienced with a fuzzy toddler. Reading the facts gives a clear indication of what these young people were experiencing. I have extreme compassion.

In the 28 years of practice I have been a strong advocate for educating the public on domestic abuse and child abuse. If can not hide our head in the sand and pretend these things do not happen in proximity close to us. Education on what may constitute child abuse.

My compassion is for a child that never had a voice. My compassion for a child that had no choices and a child that will never have a birthday.

Our goal should be to educate and to inform. The Complaint does this, it informs on exactly what happened.

There is a theory of domestic abuse and child abuse and one of the elements of this wheel is the need of the person in power to make sure others do not talk. In this case this child is speaking.

In terms of the jury what is more important a fair trial or preventing abuse? The fact is the incident was reported by every newspaper in the area. How does priniting the Complaint vs. printing a descriptive article, create the greater likelihood of not receiving a fair trial?

In terms of flashbacks for those who do not know me, I am a victim of a horrible burn accident which resulted in skin grafting. I understand pain and flashbacks. I have compassion for this and genuinely feel for you, but that should be secondary to preventing another child from harm.

As a society we owe it to our children to provide a safe home. I would point out that every newspaper in the area printed a detailed story except for the Ortonville Independent. Newspapers are limited in space, we are not.

We need to know the allegations to prevent gossip. This is a new media and we will struggle but the truth helps to prevent child abuse.

This was not an easy decision but we have established a policy and I believe the policy is the correct policy in this case.

My compassion is for a child and I hope this child prevents at least one child from experiencing the same. Joelie was right when she talked about my compassion for children.

Education may prevent future child abuse.

what can we take away from this? One thing is to look and listen. If we pay attention, perhaps we can pick up signals that a parent is struggling. We can be encouraging, offer to help, gently offer an idea to help when things get difficult. I have a neighbor who called from time to time and offered to have one or more of the kids visit for an afternoon, it was helpful, especially in the winter when things seemed a little crowded. Reminding parents that even when their children don't behave perfectly that the kids are good kids and that behavior is not always a reflection of one's parenting skills, thank goodness. It is especially difficult with an infant who communicates by crying, sometimes they are wet or hungry or tired or colicky, occasionally this is how a baby lets off steam-they cannot tell you any other way when they are upset. An experienced voice can make the situation less explosive.
i have a hard time reading details about such things, it is true.
And all of them are truly victims, the young parents will never be the same. And of course the baby will never experience the joys that life on earth can offer.
Mouthpiece; i have heard that burns are the worst pain one can have.

mouthpiece wrote:

In terms of the jury what is more important a fair trial or preventing abuse?

I do not think that you have to give up one for the other. This report should not interfere with a fair trial and it could help prevent future abuse. As far as abuse, it gives the reminder to people about the necessity to remain calm and gentle in the handling of a child. The lesson is if you can't handle it then walk away and let someone else handle it who can. Know your limits. Recognize the limits of the people around you and compensate for them. I will add that as a general rule when people know they are being watched they behave differently. Communicate your concerns.

As far as the jury trial, should their be one, I do not believe that this would compromise it. I was on a jury for a murder trial many years ago. When the murder happened it was in the papers for weeks. Much was written up about it. When selecting a jury what you are looking for are citizens who will be fair and impartial and will agree to make a decision based on the facts that are presented in the trial. You are not asking them to not have heard of the case. In this instance the report being printed is no more than what the attorney will be pursuing. That report will be the foundation of the case. Therefore you are not injecting it with outside testimony and sensationalizing it.

LittleDeb I am sorry to hear of your past experiences. Flashbacks are out there and cannot be avoided. People who have had tragic experiences will have problems with that anywhere. Often watching a movie or TV can trigger them. Just reading a headline in a newspaper can bring them back. Any report of a child being hurt could cause them and unfortunately there are to many of such things going on out there. Exposure is everywhere and I would hope that anyone needing to talk to find someone and do so.

Take a look at what just happened in the above posts. Here we have an incident and people are talking. We are sharing our common experiences and learning. We are communicating. We are discussing it in terms of what can be done to avoid such things in the future and how it affects the now. You notice there is no gossip on this thread. This to me is a normal conversation about an incident.