Jorge and Ethics

Any of you that frequent this forum know that Mouthpiece and I have our differences. Some of you have weighed in that you didn't appreciate the way our disagreements were aired.

In a recent Mouthpiece post regarding rural politics Mouthpiece states that I have politicized the local foods group and makes a pointed statement about "my friend Vicki". I invite any of you to go through my past posts and search for any issues regarding the local foods group or any "Vicki". You won't find them.

Last summer after a post in which a city of Ortonville employee was taken to task on this forum. I left a personal phone message for the administrator of this forum in which I expressed my disgust for the way this person was treated-I also made a statement about my personal feelings about any future involvement of the local foods groups with this website. I have never had any discussion privately or publicly with Mouthpiece about either of these issues, but yet he has knowledge of my phone call regarding these issues.

It is readily apparent that the administrator of this forum shared the contents of my phone message with Mouthpiece. If any of you think that that's ethical-I'll debate you anytime-anywhere. My private message for the administrator was meant to be private-if I had wanted a public debate I would have posted on this site.

Mouthpiece likes to talk about "good government" and "honesty". I've asked him directly on this site about his statement about my "politicizing" the local foods group. He refuses to answer-I suspect he won't answer. I leave it to the administrator of the site to clarify the situation.

The local foods group has worked hard to gain a foothold in this area. I am and will continue to work with the group to promote this means for farmers in this area to market their goods and supply healthy food for the areas residents. Mouthpiece's cheap attempt to make a personal smear of my involvement with the group is understandable. I've crossed swords with him and written posts which portray him in a less than respectful light. I don't appreciate the way he goes about his business on this forum. I could have certainly found less offensive ways to show that on this site. That said-the administrator sharing my phone call with him and his decision to air the contents of that phone call on this forum does not pass the "smell" test. As far as I'm concerned it's a breech in ethics. The readers of this site can decide for themselves.

It is apparent that Lady Hawk grows weary of jorge016 trolling and griefing on this site. I have reviewed all the posts made to date by jorge016 and found repeated and constant snips and snipes and criticisms.

jorge016 do you know who owns the Trib? Do you know who owns Monsanto? Do you know who owns K-Mart? Do you know who owned the EAHTONKA II? Do you require knowing who owns a business before you shop there? Do you know who owns this business? You can ask Vicki Oakes. Your intentions are clear:

jorge016 wrote:

I don't appreciate the way he goes about his business on this forum. I could have certainly found less offensive ways to show that on this site.

His identity is known as is his connection to this site. You wanted to find fault with this site and have tried to cast doubt on it's credibility. That has been apparent in numerous posts by you. That same action was done previously by Artie. Keep it up and you will find yourself in the same boat. By what right do you infringe on freedom of speech? Are you saying that anyone who talks to you cannot talk to another person about it? Do you give that disclaimer to everyone? That is how the Ortonville Click Club works. This is private you can't talk about it they say as they pass their gossip along. This is a public forum jorge016.

jorge016 wrote:

I've crossed swords with him and written posts which portray him in a less than respectful light.

Thats sounds so Artie but you do write it more eloquently.

Your feeble attempt to discredit falls short. You cry fowl over a business that discusses a public contact and say nothing about ethics when Blair Johnson made a motion and seconded it. No comment on ethics when Craig Ash didn't pay his taxes for years? No comment on David Lang when he refused to produce public documents for months? What about ethics when Vicki Oakes wrote a web policy to exclude a forum after the forum asked for the link and then scurried to the Chamber and got them to remove the link there? Breech of Ethics?" The fact that all you can find fault with or all you care to criticize is this site makes your intentions clear. You are trolling.

You have nothing to say except to make this site your project and I am done defending you. I see no reason to waste my time answering your beck and call. You were welcome to come on the site and participate and promote the community. Promote the Local Foods or what ever project you wanted. Instead you choose to tear down. This forum is a great opportunity to promote the local food movement I would suggest you use it. If you don't like the way we do business that is your opinion. If you have nothing else to say then pick up your toys and play somewhere else. It is apparent to all the good people who read this site that you are not productive and only using up time and space to try to discredit instead of promoting and building. What everyone can learn about you is this:

LadyHawk-was my private phone message shared with Mouthpiece because he's your business partner? If that's the case it puts my perception of this site in a new light.

Your fear and loathing of Vickie Oakes is apparent. I don't comment on the state of Ortonville politics because I'm not a constituent. Are you? I don't criticize Johnson or Ash because I'm not a resident-get it? Ortonville politics is a messy business-if this site had anything to do with the recently change in regime-I applaud it. Your personal attacks on a person who is not an elected official (on a site where you hide behind a username) I find regrettable.

Yes I know who owns Monsanto, KMart and the Strib. I don't do business with Monsanto or KMart (Walmart too for that matter) because I don't like how they hurt our environment (Monsanto's case) and small towns Main Streets (KMart and Walmart) that's a decision based on ethical principles-I do the best I can to keep my business in Big Stone County whether that be Clinton, Graceville, or Ortonville. Your analogy of me putting up a sign on a business that I ethically don't approve of doesn't work. If this forum is your ( and apparently Mouthpieces) business and you can't take the criticism that comes with being a supposed public forum-you're in the wrong business. Journalistic businesses take criticisms publicly. Read John Haukos' letter in the Ortonville paper this week as an example.

Lastly I never asked for your "defense". I've asked a couple of times for Mouthpiece (and you as administrator) to be accountable for his political posts. He refuses to answer the most straightforward and simple questions.

Me the new Artie? Means nothing to me if it did I'd probably cry foul instead of fowl.

jorge016 wrote:

LadyHawk-was my private phone message shared with Mouthpiece...

Let's get our facts straight. I do not recall ever talking to you on the phone. You sent me a mesage with your phone number on it and I tried to call yiou several times and left a message but I do not recollect we ever connected.

jorge016 wrote:

Your fear and loathing of Vickie Oakes is apparent.

Here we have a problem. There are certain things that do get my Irish up. By what right do you presume to know my feelings. Who are you to tell other people what I am feeling? This is how gossip is started. Spreading rumors about how other people think and feel. We'll nip this in the bud. I have no personal feelings regarding Vicki Oakes. That better be the last time you ever be so forward as to spread gossip about mine or anyone elses feelings to me.

jorge wrote:

I don't comment on the state of Ortonville politics because I'm not a constituent. Are you? I don't criticize Johnson or Ash because I'm not a resident-get it?

Yeah, I get it. So did Artie. That's what the thread on Only Residents can speak? was about. If you choose to not pay attention to the goings on around you because of some geo-political line then that is your business. I, and many others, happen to believe that we are one community. Residents in both Big Stone City and Ortonville share everything. We work in both cities, we shop in both cities, we go to church in both communities. Then you draw a line and say we cannot speak? I don't see anyone arguing that we cannot vote on either side but we can and do have a right to speak. I do not argue your right to stay out of the poltics so do the same for me and don't argue my right to stay in it. When I see people being abused across the street I'll speak up. Just because I am not allowed to cross the street doesn't mean I have to keep my mouth shut.

jorge016 wrote:

...Your personal attacks on a person who is not an elected official (on a site where you hide behind a username) I find regrettable.

Informing the public of the public actions of a public official is not personal. Your opinion may be that people are only allowed to comment on "elected" public officials. Others believe that if you work for the government then you are open to public scrutiny. Vicki Oakes' public actions have been addressed on this forum not her personal ones.

Hiding behind a "username?" My name has been identified on this site. My name is written in the records of the Ortonville City council. You can ask anyone in the city office, the chamber office, the police dept., and even over in Big Stone City and will have no shortage of people telling you who I am. As is mouthpiece. When I called your home I identified myself as I do whenever I call anyone for business purposes. That was another argument that didn't fly. People around here know who we are. We are not hidden.

jorge016 wrote:

Yes I know who owns Monsanto, KMart and the Strib. I don't do business with Monsanto or KMart (Walmart too for that matter) because ...I do the best I can to keep my business in Big Stone County whether that be Clinton, Graceville, or Ortonville.

So, you know all the possible thousands of owners of those businesses. I notice you didn't mention you knew the owners of the Eahtonka. You also didn't mention Big Stone City or SD. Perhaps you have a reason not to mention you support your neighboring state. There are some people who ignore Big Stone City, SD.

jorge016 wrote:

Your analogy of me putting up a sign on a business that I ethically don't approve of doesn't work. If this forum is your ( and apparently Mouthpieces) business and you can't take the criticism that comes with being a supposed public forum-you're in the wrong business. Journalistic businesses take criticisms publicly. Read John Haukos' letter in the Ortonville paper this week as an example.

Constructive criticism is accepted. Bullying, flaming, griefing , and trolling are not. We accept criticism and keep it up for everyone to see. It's not like the paper, here today and forgotten tomorrow when you take out the trash.

Jim is an astute businessman and sold a lot of papers that week with his theatrics. Then he turned around this week and sold some more with his "public chastisement" that he bravely permitted in his paper. Will he sell more papers again next week with a "public apology?" Oops, did I give away the ending? Now how will it turn out? Is anyone going to call that objective journalism? He made the story.

jorge016 wrote:

Lastly I never asked for your "defense". I've asked a couple of times for Mouthpiece (and you as administrator) to be accountable for his political posts. He refuses to answer the most straightforward and simple questions.

Again Artie demanding petulantly we answer his questions and takes up hours of our time to satisfy him. I have been through this before and the tune is getting old. This post alone took something over three hours to put together. I will not again allow you to steal my time to satisfy your selfish indulgence. When you pointed out a criticism I appreciated it and took it to heart problem solved and here you are still complaining to me.

Mouthpiece is accountable for his posts. I have watched football games and know enough about men who like to go out and play rough and knock each other down and then slap each other on the back and say "good job." If this is some kind of "male bonding ritual" between you and mouthpiece then I want no part of it. I posted once before on this subject and will put it up one more time and then we can be done with it.

Lady Hawk wrote:

Some people may review the posts above and in the information thread that understood started and say that the other people were also at fault. That others were also not behaving appropriately. I see it like this. You have a group of children playing nicely in the playground and a bully comes in and starts wacking some of the kids and pushing them around. It is only natural that some of them will fight back. This is how some bullies operate and some of Arties posts reflect this. Some start with personal digs, and go to insult the intelligence then move on to intimidate and threaten. All the while claiming they are the victim and you are the accuser.

There are those who think mouthpiece is abrasive. If you take a look at the behavior of Artie you can see what we are up against here. Mouthpiece has been in this community for years and seen firsthand the lying, backstabbing, gossiping, sneaking behavior by people in this community against innocent people who are either crushed or pushed out of town. Mouthpiece may be a little abrasive to some people but it takes someone with guts to stand up to bullies. When you are facing a junkyard dog growling and bearing its teeth you want a leveler that can take it on.

(What people need to recognize is that mouthpiece is an admin of this site. I do not control mouthpiece. The reverse is true that mouthpiece does not control Lady Hawk. Or Computerwhiz for that matter. We all respect our differences and allow each one to act on their own conscience. There is no one person controlling this site. We all have an influence. Mouthpiece is a fair minded man who will listen to both sides of an issue. If you talk respectfully to him he will respect you. If you attack him he responds. When mouthpiece talks some people are offended by his manner. Don't assume his motive or intent, just read the words and respond to the message.)

I think jorge hit the nail on the head. I have fealt the same way, but was afraid of the moderators.

Oh, jorge016, speaking of Artie, I wonder if he is going to try to sneak back on and go for the record of being banned the most times on this site.


KiethC, I usually greet new members when they post on a thread with me.

Lady Hawk
Given the waste of time, space and opportunity to genuinely communicate that are going on because of this baiter's nonsense, it may be time to consider setting aside a special place for those who don't wish to engage with anyone, or in anything constructive. Sort of like a letter to the editor section. You could call it the Town Crier page. Bring your own hankies.

Enough already.

Zorro reread your post. If I was a troll I'd bite on your attempt to beliittle me. Why not weigh in on the issue instead of trying to ridicule-seems like you stoop to "my level". Pot meet kettle.